oh shit there’s a supernatural episode airing right now isn’t there?
now i’m like 4 episodes behind!!!
"i don’t just not like you, quark, i despise you.”
you know… i actually don’t like most of the characters on this show.
like… sisco i’m pretty neutral about. (the awfully cardboard acting really doesn’t help!) bashier it’s a pompoous twat but i love him. he’s still annoying as hell though. o’brien i’m actually starting to dislike. even on good days i don’t actively like him. odo i like because he’s interesting not because i have any emotional attatchment to him and generally speaking it’s a fairly neutral feeling too.
do you know who i fucking love on this show?
(what a surprise). but hey would you look at that they’re fucking awesome and well-written
i love dax because she’s a fascinating character. she’s mysterious and there’s so much nuanced character in her because of what she is, being a symbiont and all. and don’t even get me started on that smile she has like she knows the secret of the universe, which tbh she probably does… she’s got the wisdom and allure of someone age-old, but the charm and wit and sassiness of youth and i love it
and then there’s kira, who just tops it all. i didn’t like her very much when i watched the series as a kid, but my life i am falling deeper and deeper in love with her every single episode. she had me crying when she was screaming about gallotep. i just… i will make a post about her when i can collect some coherent thoughts.
just know that she is the susan ivanova of the ds9-verse…
I am going to just answer the parts I think I can address. The rest we’ll just agree to disagree on :)
(also, maddi, my john winchester tag is really mean, sorry, it’s nothing personal to you and this post, i SWEARR)
Firstly - I know your John tag is hateful but hey, you hate John so it’s understandable! I don’t take it (or this post) personally, don’t worry. I’m actually grateful you’re considerate enough to tag your posts consistently
(even though I don’t have tumblr saviour, but that’s beside the point, it’s the thought that counts!)
And d’aw thank you! I’m glad you think my responses are well-thought out… I don’t! I just sort of watch my fingers race over the keyboard and hope it comes out coherent… :P
But yes, back to John.
Oooh that is tricky territory. And it goes a little like this…
I love him. I really do. But, particularly in the wake of all the meta about abuse between Dean and Sam I feel it’s really important to talk about it openly with John/his sons too.
John abused his sons. I don’t think he ever hit his sons (I mean sure he probably smacked them in discipline like my parents did, but not out of anger in an abusive pattern), but that doesn’t mean he didn’t abuse them. The environment in which he brought them up was unhealthy, and you look at the effect his parenting had on his sons, you cannot deny that what he did was abusive. And no amount of “but he was just doing what he thought was right!” or “but he loved his sons!” is going to change that.
However, while I won’t excuse his behaviour, I do understand it. And I love him, despite the kind of father he was. Because he was broken, and I love broken people. I love how hard he tried and I love that he screwed up, because it’s interesting. I love the man he was with Mary. And I love him because the fandom vilifies him and I often am drawn to like the characters the fandom hates and dislike the characters fandom is obsessed with…
(As a sidenote, if you don’t want to see pro-John Winchester on your dash, I tag all my John posts [none of which are John hate] as #john winchester tag)
This is really important. You can love a character and understand their motivations without excusing their behavior.
John believed with all of his heart that he was doing what he needed to do in order to do right by his family. That doesn’t mean that he was doing right by them, that his actions and decisions didn’t irrevocably damage both of his sons, but he did believe that he was doing right.
You know it’s interesting, because of all of Supernatural’s characters, I actually feel like John gets the fullest range of any in fandom. You can find like every iteration of his parenting. I understand liking and loving difficult characters, the one who could have been so much better than they were, I think this is a gread deal of the benefit of the doubt for what canon shows. What about him makes you think he thinks he was doing the “right” thing? I’ve always gotten a “ends determine means” vibe about him, which philosophically is about getting the best results through intentionally bad and good acts, but I don’t think I ever thought he thought he was doing right by his kids.
Another thing that sticks out at me is that the way people try to gloss over what John did is much more cosmetic than it is compassionate. (Obviously nothing on this thread, but in fandom overall.) It’s not about who John was or what he subjectively experienced, it’s about preserving a specific type of masculinity and fatherhood.
Because while I can’t quite bring myself to defend him completely, I actually do not believe that John is the sole party responsible for those awful dynamics. Like, John was absolutely an abusive parent, but he’s also a victim in this whole thing. Both Michael’s garrison and Azazel’s faction of demons spent a not-insignificant amount of time targeting him in order to manipulate his behavior to very specific ends. I really do think there’s a solid case to be made that after a decade of angel-roofies and then another decade of demon-stalking, maybe he really just couldn’t get his head right enough to make good choices.
But acknowledging the truth of that angle, to whatever degree, means acknowledging that John was not particularly powerful. And I find it seriously alarming, that as adverse to the fact that John was a shitty father as people are, they are even more adverse to the implication that he was in some way weak.
reblogging for the fascinating and valuable commentary…
I look like an extremely professional fashionable woman in an Abaya. It probably took me AGES to look this professional right?
WRONG. I’m actually wearing my onesie underneath it and you will NEVER KNOW MWAHAHAHA
Wanna know another secret? Even though i LOOK like I’m paying attention to whatever nonsense you are saying…..
I AM ACTUALLY WEARING HEADPHONES AND LISTENING TO MUSIC
Just wanna leave this here, because yeah…
a good response to the question “how old are you?” is something along the lines of “dunno i stopped counting after the first few centuries”
and it needs to be said seriously without smiling or humor or as casually as possible and followed by “so anyway” and a subject change as if it’s completely normal
Watch and be amazed common folk! As the same fandom who hates X character trait in female character adores the fuck out of it in male character!